In their second discussion John and Tony explore the theme of ‘order’ in more depth. They agree that ‘order’ is a bigger paradigm than the ‘sin/salvation’ paradigm – and that it cannot be separated from the presence of God.  Anyone who tastes or yearns for ‘order’ is in fact tasting and yearning for God himself. John then develops order into three manifestations; rest, peace and coherence.  In John’s own words, “these all come about through God’s presence in the world (not really having much to do with salvation).  The gospel that we are to preach certainly involved Jesus died for us and our sins, but more importantly the gospel involves God’s presence in the world, the possibility of being in relationship and the rest, peace and coherence he can bring.”  This is a very stimulating discussion that offers a fresh perspective for how we might be ‘disciples’ of Christ in the world today.